Kevin's First Look. Recommendations from it and a bit more

[jonn_mc]

Kevin Geary did a 3h first look into cwicly. You can find it here: WDD LIVE 014 - Cwicly First Impressions (Workflow UX, HTML Inspection, Viability) - YouTube

There are some key takeaways for me, I would not like to go away.

Blocks:

1. Section and its wrapper working is counter intuitively for me. Also want the background to go all the way… running into this also… and having the real website width shown.

2. Missing the Container (from former experiences…)

3. Buttons: it should look like a button (otherwise I can use any text thing and make it a button) and should ask for the link more prominent, as that is the thing most button are made for. Maybe with 2/3 class / preset styles to choose from (And maybe inline-flex as default…)

4. Columns jumping design sometimes to rows.

Helping to start:

1. When open the backend page/post, default open WITH Cwicly Navigator docked on the left side, remember when closing where it was for next time. Can we hide the obnoxious Gutenberg navigator?

2. Explain better, why using Gutenberg Blocks with Cwicly may be a not so good idea. If you query and pick a Gutenberg block for example.

3. Cwicly Settings with Templates & Global Parts jumping out of settings to Cwicly Themer, and “Parts” to Gutenberg Editor (their Themer). Why?

Cwicly Settings is an opportunity waiting to happen, where a lot of stuff from all around the plugin can find a place to also very easily been found if searched for:
Should have the Role Editor here. Or for example should have the possibility to change default px with rem/ em etc or the great font chooser. Could bring the global styles into the setting, as you build them (mostly) only once.

Classes / Presets:
That part is definitely easy to do stuff wrong and should be easy to do right.
Maybe let me choose in settings, if I am looking for a more “traditional” classes workflow w/o the differentiation with presets/page classes/. But even the cwicly class workflow is definitely complex. It is like an old Ferrari you have to take care a lot or you will blow the engine compared to an modern Bentley GT, you can drive smoothly or ride like a super sports car. You could get inspiration from Bricks on this.

Stuff that would be great:

1. custom tags, the tag works with “enter” instead of picking the chosen tag.
2. query / filter beginner mode

What not to forget: I really like Cwicly. It has a great idea, it has super friendly team. I would love for it to win over a lot more users. For that I think there are still some peculiarities that are still to iron out. Go for A+.

[Marius]

@jonn_mc

Section and its wrapper working is counter intuitively for me.

Can you please elaborate?
I think such statements without any further info won’t help anyone.

@jonn_mc

Also want the background to go all the way… running into this also… and having the real website width shown.

The “real” page width is reflected inside the editor. There is no issue.
Not sure if things can be improved out of the box in that regard, as it’s Gutenberg default functionality.

Please keep in mind that this was only a first impression/walk-through, not a review, so it should be clear that many things were user error.

@jonn_mc

Missing the Container (from former experiences…)

It’s not planned.
While I agree with this opinion/explanation 100%, I can see the potential need by users.

What would be the thing of a section block and container block?
If it’s solved that way, I can simply use 2 div nested blocks and add a single global class to the parent one.
Multiple structure blocks suits more to builders that bloat their block/element library with unnecessary stuff anyway (mostly because they aren’t that flexible like Cwicly).

While the section situation is not perfectly handled for everyone, it just reflects the philosophy of Cwicly as a perfect example.

I’ve stated it multiple times - I’m very neutral to this topic.
But would feel a bit odd if now suddenly things would change.
However, it’s important to add that I’d always vote for it if there is a poll - don’t get me wrong here.

@jonn_mc

Buttons: it should look like a button (otherwise I can use any text thing and make it a button) and should ask for the link more prominent, as that is the thing most button are made for. Maybe with 2/3 class / preset styles to choose from (And maybe inline-flex as default…)

It shouldn’t.
People seem to be addicted to override predefined styles.
Go to the global elements and make your own default style(s).
So your default button (block) looks exact the way you want.

How is that even an argument?
You don’t need paragraphs or headings, same goes for buttons.
They are all helper blocks.
A single universal block would totally sufficient if I’d follow your logic.

However, if all this (“necessary” because other builders do it that way and that’s why it’s a good idea) stuff is optional, please bloat the hell out of it.

Buttons are planned to be inline-flex.

@jonn_mc

Columns jumping design sometimes to rows.

If you face any issues, please report it here or contact support.
Not sure what you are referring to.

@jonn_mc

When open the backend page/post, default open WITH Cwicly Navigator docked on the left side, remember when closing where it was for next time. Can we hide the obnoxious Gutenberg navigator?

This isn’t only possible, it’s the default behavior.
Can you elaborate?

You can hide Gutenberg’s list view inside the Role Editor.

@jonn_mc

Cwicly Settings is an opportunity waiting to happen, where a lot of stuff from all around the plugin can find a place

I disagree here.
It’s the best decision to move all the necessary stuff inside the builder.
With Cwicly and the entire FSE concept, say goodbye to unnecessary backend digging.
One is able to manage everything inside the builder, once everything is set up properly in the backend.
All the settings which are hidden in the backend but which actually design/builder related - that’s a strength of other tools.

@jonn_mc

Classes / Presets

Couldn’t disagree more, as I find your points invalid.
You might be more used to how other builders handle it and there is nothing wrong with it.

@jonn_mc

custom tags, the tag works with “enter” instead of picking the chosen tag.

Agreed. Custom tags should be available at some point.
The tag is working with “enter”, but seems like not all are supported currently. It’s either a bug or recently added tags aren’t support yet. Good find though and I’m sure this will be addressed soon.

---

Seems like you didn’t make any personal experience with Cwicly yet, as a lot of your points do suggest.
Keep in mind that you can test Cwicly for free.

[jonn_mc]

a) Section: Well the easiest way to explain it, is to watch the video from 25min, check here: WDD LIVE 014 - Cwicly First Impressions (Workflow UX, HTML Inspection, Viability) - YouTube

b) container: ok, don’t see that as clutter though.

c) button: as we have a button block it would not hurt to have it behave a bit expected. At least in my opinion. I like the helper blocks, otherwise I would go generate blocks. But button is a road block for beginner as it is. It is just unnecessary complicated for a lot of use cases, where one’s build a website.

d) columns: also in the video to see.

e) backend Cwicly Navigator: If you open it the first time it is not open. See the video. But you are right, it keeps the selection.

f) settings: Well it would be easier to start when there is a place easy to find. But no problem in keeping it in the editor also. For example the font download selection or the default values like px or em would be perfect there (also).

g) classes / presets: ok, everything fine, nothing to see here. I am not saying the cwicly way is wrong, it is just complicated and a road block for new users to overcome. And if you have too many of that, you stay irrelevant for too many potential users / use cases. I really appreciate you knowing stuff and helping me and others a lot, but Cwicly will stay niche. And that would be a bit sad.

h)custom tags: not my find, see the video.

[Marius]

I’ve seen that someone of the team followed the stream, so you can expect they took some notes, I’d assume.

Personally, I find it difficult to take (serious) suggestions from a first walk-through, especially since it requires some time to understand the entire concept; but that’s none of my business.
There were some valid points, some of them I share.

Just in case someone brings up the point of making things more intuitive from the beginning:

Making onboarding and first impression an intuitive and easy experience is important but not the the ultimate solution. It’s more complex than people might think, especially in terms of workflow when one got used to the builder.
It also depends on the individual user. One gets it quicker, the other one needs some more time.

@jonn_mc

ok, everything fine, nothing to see here.

I only shared my personal view on things - just as you did.
Any feedback, as long as constructive, will help in some way.
Different users have different needs, so please don’t stop sharing your thoughts here, they are important.

@jonn_mc

I really appreciate you knowing stuff and helping me and others a lot

Thank you, I really do appreciate

@jonn_mc

but Cwicly will stay niche

Webflow is also a niche. What’s your actual point?

I get the point of this thread, but how about the idea of checking and/or verifying stuff on your own side/installation?
Nothing wrong with forming an own opinion.

Anyway, thanks for sharing your thoughts here, the more opinions the better is the chance things getting adressed (the right way).