End of Cwicly - Where and how to migrate to?

This is so unreal to read such messages, and so sad.
I couldn’t imagine having this conversation one day :frowning:

But yes, I feel exactly like you, and I guess a lot of us do. What a waste. What next?
I didn’t even enjoy webdesign anymore until Cwicly showed up (after only 8 years), struggling with O2 and Bricks, waiting features and fixes in vain…
Though I clearly don’t have enough maintenance plans to survive, it might be time to move on to something new. I would love working with animals!


Yes, you’re probably right with all you’re saying :cry:

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You can go down there and do your thing, but it is what it is for many people and I am sure more than half the oxygen community agrees with me, i saw the whole live and the guy not even acknowledged the main and few influencers that brought him success in the time… whatever now it applies what @zeinnicholas said about fanboys and polarizers which I really can’'t care less about.

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If it wasn’t clear, my intention was to focus on discussing the products, not the people, and being respectful, regardless if someone doesn’t deserve it from your point of view or mine…

I mean, I don’t like eating mangos, but a lot of people do, and I’m OK with that. They can eat whatever they want to eat to be honest. As long as they leave me alone about it, and let me continue the discussion about eating cookies, even if they think it’s unhealthy. Even if a really evil company like Nestlé makes them, they’re still cookies.

I would love to keep eating them chocolate covered Oreos for example. But apparently they are going to be discontinued here… So I’ll have to find raw chocolate to melt and pour over them, then wait until they get cold. It will require a lot of different tools, and ingredients, and triple the cost, not to mention the time spent covering them all…

But I need to move on and accept my losses… It isn’t worth the effort. :face_with_diagonal_mouth:

It’s this very saltiness why we lost Cwicly and very lucky we didn’t lose Oxygen and Breakdance. If I had a million to invest and start a WP builder I wouldn’t because of this. What’s wrong with acknowledging that influencers helped? Better than denying it. The only point I’m making is the negativity thrown at Louis from Oxygen was overblown and it hurt the community overall. Makes the space uninvestable. Forgive and forget maybe.

Funny, I already said this before, it was advertised as a no code solution like this:

NoCode like a coder

Forget sloppy and bloated code output that impacts your users and ranking. Whether you’re a beginner or an advanced developer, experience the freedom and creativity of visual coding.

Cwicly does all the heavy-lifting in the background to make your code beautiful and performant as if you had your own dev team available at all times.

Beautiful right? but it was not just targeting snowflakes who believe they belong to another realm, it was targeting everyone in the wordpress community who needed freedom to build through a page builder, including elementor, divi, beaver b and such type of users, who could also feed your wild dreams for the perfect builder, why? because there is where the money is and yes without proper targeting no business can make money and with no money there is no development project that can grow.

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Go ahead and start something you want, a business or a YT channel any network and you’ll face criticism, if you don’t have the guts to hold and go through you’ll fail so better don’t try.
Now cwicly had lots of constructive criticism and it was growing nevertheless but it seems like a chess tournament where there was only 2 last players at the end and then you self inflict check mate at the expense of not just you, but the many people who bet on your success.

So if you think you are so clever, bet on your success not in your emotions.

Lol, did you read anything I said.

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While I understand your thinking, unfortunately any tool for “pros” must also enable ease of use for “noobs” as well, as many professional websites are designed to be edited by clients or non-technical editors and their experience also needs to be catered for.

In your scenario, there are several ways this could be separated out, I just think the default WordPress editing experience has potential for improvements and prefer to offer a more customised experience.

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Hi! Could you send me the link to the discussion you mention about Gutenberg blocks from custom field and using them as components please? I would be very interested to read that :slight_smile:

Hi @iamkeef,

Sorry I realize I didn’t use the right words, I was not talking about WP custom fields, but more about customizable fields in the general way, to define your block.
Different options have been mentined, among them: ACF Blocks, Wicked Blocks, Pine Grow.

Read these threads:

Ohh! I belong to another sphere because i know what a selector and a pseudo is, so lovely… f ing noobs know what are those too. you want someone to create a blue unicorn just for you.
So you are talking about tools like webflow, the only reason “noobs” don’t ever use them its because they don’t operate in a personal environment/hosting and since wordpress its an open source, probably cwicly is not the right tool for you either.
I heard @Louis saying he believed in democratizing web development and make it accessible for the most people.

Bricks its not a tool for noobs yet they happily switch from elementor when they learn the convenience.

Some coders are sweethearts its so lovely that you feel so special because you know to code and guard your knowledge so deeply yet every person can go and take a course for 3 months and learn enough to start a web design business and profit from that, probably not even looking to be hired.

I don’t have time for this but there you go, here is the culprit:

@Louis actually thought tailwinnd was the simplified solution that would solve the noob thing an giving the “pros” the tools they wanted but tailwind ended up over complicating things for most people. He realized that tailwind was not even for coders either because the real ones, don´t even need tools like tailwind just for efficiency at a very high cost.

An online business that aims to earn a quarter mil a year by developing software its no dev studio that is the mother Teresa crowdfunding by developing software for people who want to code for food. So your math doesn’t fit to a visionary entrepreneur of any sort.

But I get you are confused because even noobs would pay 100usd a month for the right tool, if it helps them to make money. You can keep looking for the blue unicorn there is even a song for that.

And again, this is not about religion or politics, this is about business.

Tailwind v4 is an ideal solution for professionals and basic users. Cwicly simplifies the use of tailwind with a builder. At the end of the day, a hybrid approach is also possible, using the Tailwind utility + CSS.

Tailwind is just a tool just like ACSS or any other CSS Frameworks.


I agree to that, 250k p.a. is far from a stable professional business from my point of view, but should at least 20 times of that if not more. And I want to add, never ever offer lifetime licenses, that’s a trap to get initial money and users, but you are lacking stable recurring fees in the long run.

Just a discussion side not: I think it is not necessary to be that harsh to others and their thoughts (that’s what I am feeling when reading that), even if you have a valid point and some views of others seem to have not been thought through to the end. I myself think it’s good when people contribute constructively and share their thoughts


This is the reason I was reluctant to get bricks in the first place, even commented them that they needed to implement the year plan or something more, hopefully now it makes them more stable.

I see. Thank you. I have just purchased Pinegrow as they also offer a Tailwind integration - so it looks like my journey will now be (very sadly) leaving Cwicly behind and moving on to Pinegrow


This is not what I said, nor was I meant.
I was explicitly referring to individuals who didn’t know what they are actually talking about.
The ones who constantly spread misinformation. This also includes some “influencers” who should’ve known better, but pushed their own agenda for the single reason of greed for profit.

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This is an option to explore, but I don’t have the time for my current project.
I’d be interested in some feedback, if you have time to post it here.

I’ve looked at the alternatives, and though I don’t think it’s worth a long drawn out post, I do think that capturing my thoughts might help others:
Oxygen: Did not look at it – no idea. Does not integrate with Gutenberg, meaning that composition with greenshift would be a problem.
LiveCanvas: Does not integrate with Gutenberg, inserting images is a problem, copying parts of the page is a problem, no navigator or navigator like thing. No easy way to reuse work from elsewhere on the site. Liked the code editor.
Bricks: Not integrated with Gutenberg, hard to input content, or add images, making image heavy text posts problematic. UI seemed slow and weird, but that’s subjective. You could add classes, but not style the classes, except by adding CSS manually. I’m not sure how that’s better than gutenberg. At least they have a navigatory thingy.
Kadence: In theory it should be great, if you don’t need to do anything fancy. It does integrate with Gutenberg. No full site editing theme, and in practice, any attempt to do much of any customization beyond picking colors resulted in it’s digging it;s claws in and fighting you every step of the way.
Spectra: Fo FSE theme for Spectra either. The Spectra One theme is beautifully marketed, but did not work well enough for us to test further, with blank pages for everything and misc jank that couldn’t be fixed very easily at all. The controls, like Kadence, are simplified and arbitrary, but that’s not a surprise.
Just using Word/LiveWriter: I played with this, under the theory that “who needs to actually solve the problem of good web pages?”. Unfortunately, couldn’t get it to hook up. Maybe it no longer works?
PineGrow: Looked very feature rich, and with nice UI. Very complicated. Unfortunely, I couldn’t get off first base with image insertion, and I couldn’t understand how it connected to Wordpress. So I didn’t go further.
BeaverBuilder and Elementor: My impressions with this are out of date, as I didn’t check recently. I got driven crazy by the fact that you were supposed to create a text box, then click elsewhere in the UI to fill that textbox in with text, in a small edit box. That totally disturbs the flow of writing.
Raw Gutenberg: Looks like it would be a goat rodeo to get it customized the way we’d want. May do it anyway, and accept simpler results, since the editing/insertion story is really really good. Pasting images (with the_paste plugin) is a snap, and multiple block handling is almost as good as cwicly’s.
Greenshift: Still evaluating this one. Fancy features, but inserting images into their image block or converting images from Gutenberg to their format is truly painful. Probably I’m stupid there. Also converting from gutenberg text (or Cwicly text) is painful. Hitting return in their text block does not break the block up, one must use Ctrl-Alt Y.
Builderius: Another totally non-gutenberg solution for Wordpress. In this case, what this meant was that adding a list item (by clicking on list item) gave you an uneditable “list item 1” with a handy (and tiny) plain text text box to edit the list item. Totally a flow killer; good luck assembling or writing a large document in Builderius.

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Although they are not themes, I recommend also to look at GenerateBlocks and Blockstudio. My only issue is finding an FSE theme to pair them with, also unsure how I would build menus as I normally use my page builder to do that. I do own the Max Mega Menu plugin, but it just doesn’t feel clean like the Cwicly menu blocks did :frowning:
But I am slowly starting to find a path away from Cwicly which feels like it could work. I’ve also signed up for Pinegrow. By having 2 options I feel like I am safeguarding myself better in case a situation like the Cwicly one should arise again.